The Curious Compendium 2023-2024: Shih-tzu, maltese, pekingese!

[Gwangi]

at the risk of getting pedantic, any given animal is just a modified form of whatever group it is descended. Humans are just bipedal, hairy, air-breathing, milk-producing fish     

Indeed! Sarcopterygian fish, to be exact. But I think the misconception with the apes are monkeys things is that people don't realize that apes evolved directly from monkeys. I think a lot of people assume that they just share a common ancestor with them.

[EpicRaptorMan]

Still it's reaching the point of being an oversimplification. And I don't think most of people are concerned on whether or not apes/monkeys share a common ancestor or not.

[stargatedalek]

I disagree that it's an oversimplification. This reminds me of the orca situation, where they're dolphins rather than whales despite the common moniker. If you try to tell someone orca are dolphins, you will often be met with a snarky reaction that "well all dolphins are whales", despite cetacean taxonomy being a lot more complicated than that. Dolphins exact origins are unclear and they share a common ancestor with known tooth whales, rather than being descended from them, even if dolphins are more derived. They are lumped into toothed whales based on a hypothetical ancestor splitting first from baleen whales, but cetaceans could be displayed split into three groups instead.

Ape and monkey taxonomy is a lot less complicated. Apes descended from monkeys, full stop. And yet the same snarky reactions tend to go the opposite direction "nu uh, chimps are apes not monkies" etc.

[Gwangi]

Still it's reaching the point of being an oversimplification. And I don't think most of people are concerned on whether or not apes/monkeys share a common ancestor or not.

Definitely not oversimplification. It's facts, and understanding it helps to understand evolution and classification. It's no different than acknowledging that humans are apes or that birds are dinosaurs. If humans are apes, and apes are primates, then it is not an oversimplification to call apes monkeys. You can't have New World and Old World monkeys without apes also being monkeys. They have more in common with and a more recent common ancestor with Old World monkeys than Old World monkeys do with New World monkeys.

I've talked to a lot of folks with a basic understanding of evolution and taxonomy that insist apes are not monkeys but instead share a common ancestor with them. It is incorrect and people would probably understand that better if they knew that apes were monkeys instead of everyone insisting that they're somehow separate.

I suggest watching Aronra's Systematic Classification of Life videos. This one in particular, skip to 6:58 for the relevant bit.

[EpicRaptorMan]

Yes, I am aware that apes evolved directly from OWM but as mentioned earlier every organism is just a natural progression of what had come before. Yes, homos are apes which are monkeys which all are primates. However, hominidae, are evolving beyond that and as of making this post are there own distinct family.

[Gwangi]

Yes, I am aware that apes evolved directly from OWM but as mentioned earlier every organism is just a natural progression of what had come before. Yes, homos are apes which are monkeys which all are primates. However, hominidae, are evolving beyond that and as of making this post are there own distinct family.

Hominidae are their own family, but it is a family within Catarrhini (Old World monkeys) and will never "evolve beyond that". That's not a thing that happens. Organisms do not leave their ancestral clade so it doesn't matter how "distinct" apes are. They're still monkeys. You can research it on your own from here, I don't want to hijack this collection thread. As I said in my first post, there's no debate about it. I suggest watching the the Systematic Classification of Life series on Youtube.

[EpicRaptorMan]

Yes, I am aware that apes evolved directly from OWM but as mentioned earlier every organism is just a natural progression of what had come before. Yes, homos are apes which are monkeys which all are primates. However, hominidae, are evolving beyond that and as of making this post are there own distinct family.

Hominidae are their own family, but it is a family within Catarrhini (Old World monkeys) and will never "evolve beyond that". That's not a thing that happens. Organisms do not leave their ancestral clade so it doesn't matter how "distinct" apes are. They're still monkeys. You can research it on your own from here, I don't want to hijack this collection thread. As I said in my first post, there's no debate about it. I suggest watching the the Systematic Classification of Life series on Youtube.

Yup just how we're still just sarcopterygian. Lol

They're still distinct enough to warrant their own family classification. Apes are monkeys. But not all monkeys are apes.

[Saarlooswolfhound]

I don't mind having friendly discussions here. But in the spirit of keeping things friendly, I have a new group to present.

Thomson's gazelle!


Fun facts: the unique bouncing/jumping they use to travel (arched back, straight legs, high into the air) is used to evade predators or display aggression conspecifically. It is called stotting or pronking. They also only sleep for about 5 minutes at a time through the day. In 24 hours they usually only get about 1 hour of sleep!

[EpicRaptorMan]

I have the older female Schleich one. It's okay. I actually bought the PNSO one to replace it, but the details on the PNSO gazelle is just so good that it honestly seems out of place with the rest of the collection. Lol.

Pronking/stotting is also believed to be an example of the handicap principal, a hypothesis that was proposed by the biologist Amotz Zahavi. It's speculated that pronking is a way for the gazelle to signal to the predator that they are healthy and would be no match. Similar to the taunting behavior you'd see with school kids at the park where they'd intentionally taunt their peers during a game of tag.

[Saarlooswolfhound]

Interesting, thanks for the info!

Next is the Western lowland gorilla!



Fun facts: This species are the gorillas you see in captivity; with rare exception! They also have very little water requirements and do not drink from rivers/ponds. They get all the moisture they need from plants they eat; especially dew covered leaves in the morning.

[Saarlooswolfhound]

Sable Antelope!



Fun facts! Their horns grow to be about 1.6 meters long (about the length of an elephant's tusk! Once they reach maturity, they grow one ring in length every year; so you can estimate age from them. The subspecies, the Angolan giant sable antelope, is critically endangered with less than 100 individuals left in the wild.

[EpicRaptorMan]

One of my favorites. I have the safari LTD one that's on the far right. I believe it was one of my first if not the first SafariLtd model. I only collected Schleich before.

I'm looking for this [https://animaltoyforum.com/index.php?topic=3195.msg36853#msg36853/ Roan Antelope] and at one time I considered modifying one of the above Sable Antelope. And I still might, really the biggest concern would be shortening the horns and mane. Perhaps the female from CollectA to represent a male Roan?

[Saarlooswolfhound]

I think that would work just fine. I have a sable to customize eventuaally, when I find the time.

Undetermined species gorillas.




Just for general gorilla fun facts: a female will have approximately 3-4 offspring in her lifetime *one baby at a time*. These animals eat HUGE amounts of plant material and are thus big vectors for seed dispersal.

[bmathison1972]

Is that gorilla on the very top left of the first pic the 2017 model by Schleich? If so, it was specifically marketed as a western lowland (or at the very least western), and I see no reason to question that. I have it in my collection. Maybe it's a different model that just looks like the 2017 Schleich figure.

[Saarlooswolfhound]

Thanks Blaine! I usually defer to TAW for taxa I am less expert on (as is the case here) and there it is listed as an undetermined species/subspecies. If that's what it is marketed as I will change it to reflect. Thank you for the info! So the female companion model should be the same, no?

[bmathison1972]

I think the reason TAW has it as 'undetermined' is because someone on the STS forum gave a long analysis of different gorilla figures and thought this was something else. The individual was using rather 'soft' features, which is somewhat futile in a 6" figure representing a 150+ lb animal     

Schleich's designation is more than adequate

[Saarlooswolfhound]

Bongos!



Bongo antelope are the only tragelaphus species to have males AND females with horns. They have been observed eating burnt wood after lightning storms; likely as a source of minerals and medicinal charcoal.

[bmathison1972]

males and females with horns...I guess bongos do...um...march to the beat of a different 'drum' 

[Saarlooswolfhound]

ha! Good one Blaine. I also learned that they are not named after that drum but instead another indigenous word for "antelope".

[EpicRaptorMan]

One of these escaped a Texas zoo awhile back and had the case of the zoomies.