Author Topic: Pelecaniformes - Herons, Ibises, Spoonbills, Pelicans, Shoebill and Hamerkop  (Read 2901 times)

postsaurischian

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This thread is about the order of these medium-sized and large waterbirds that have feet with all four toes webbed.
The Pelecaniformes consists of the families .....

 -  Ardeidae (herons)
 -  Threskiornithidae (ibises and spoonbills)
 -  Scopidae (Hamerkop)
 -  Pelecanidae (pelicans)
 -  Balaenicipitidae (Shoebill)

 :)  I hope I'm going to see some of these here. I'm starting with the few I have.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



                                                                              Nipponia nippon  -  Crested Ibis

                                                                                 Kaiyodo, the Study Room (left)
                                                      TAKARA TOMY A.R.T.S - Eternal lost breeds, Extinct animal (middle)
                                                                 Kaiyodo, Natural Monuments of Japan No.02 (right)


                         



                                                                                 Balaeniceps rex  -  Shoebill

                                                                       1. Phat! Doki Doki Doubutu Series   2. CollectA
                                                  3. Kaiyodo - CapsuleQ Unique Animal Zoo vol.1   4. Eikoh Miniatureplanet
                                                  5. Kaiyodo - CapsuleQ Unique Animal Zoo vol.2   6. OOAK made by Harriet



widukind

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Very interesting. I have also any and also the only hamerkop that i know. A small and more flat white plastic figurine by Fanta.

bmathison1972

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Great threads to start Helge. Alas I cannot contribute to them, but I look forward to them being added to!

AcroSauroTaurus

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The only one I have so far.

Figure:
Schleich White Pelican (open mouth)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 06:28:28 AM by AcroSauroTaurus »
I am the Dinosaur King!

widukind

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pelicans (Nayab, K&M, AAA, Elastolin, Schleich, S&N, Safari Ltd, unknown)


Storks (shoebill =Phat, Marabus= Starlux, Noahs Pals, Lineol, oriental stork by Kaiyodo, Jabiru= Yowies UK and white stork unknown and flying Nayab)


Cranes, Heron, Ibisses..... (K&M, Starlux, Bandai, Kaiyodo, Bullyland, Nayab, CollectA, Dollhouse Miniatures, handmade, Safari Ltd, Elastolin, unknown)


Margarine birds



vintage Hong Kong and Fanta water birds



Eikoh shoebill



Kaiyodo spoonbill



Papo Flamingo and Marabou



Starlux and Vitacup






Some figurines are wrong here i know. But they are only copied from STS water birds
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 05:25:13 PM by widukind »

postsaurischian

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Wow! That's a lot. I like especially the monochrome oldies :).

I know birds' taxonomy is very complicated (and under constant change). I had planned to do other threads for cranes or flamingos or storks, but first I have to learn about their orders and families ... and as you wrote, this will take some time. But we should make time for that.
It would also be nice (and kind of important) to name the figures.

postsaurischian

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                                                     Another Pelican by Schleich (with its mouth closed)

                   

postsaurischian

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Sorry, triple post :-[ ;D.

@ widukind: It would be cool if you could erase your Flamingo pictures here
                    and put it there instead: http://animaltoyforum.com/index.php?topic=2056.0  :)

bmathison1972

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Black-faced spoonbill, Platalea minor, by CollectA


Isidro

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This thread is about the order of these medium-sized and large waterbirds that have feet with all four toes webbed.

Medium-sized and large waterbirds that have feet with all four toes webbed = Pelecaniformes sensu classico (or sensu logic), or what I would call the true Pelecaniformes. So, families Phaetontidae, Pelecanidae, Sulidae, Phalacrocoracidae, Anhingidae and Fregatidae. They also share a gular sac and other features typical of this order.

-  Ardeidae (herons)
 -  Threskiornithidae (ibises and spoonbills)
 -  Scopidae (Hamerkop)
 -  Pelecanidae (pelicans)
 -  Balaenicipitidae (Shoebill)

These are the Pelecaniformes sensu molecular "taxonomy", blindly accepted by every official source now, but not by me certainly! None of them have webbed feet except the Pelecanidae ;) with the remaining families falling in order Ciconiiformes according to classic or logic taxonomy done and accepted by exhaustive science before the invention of the molecular religion :)

Isidro

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Cranes, Heron, Ibisses..... (K&M, Starlux, Bandai, Kaiyodo, Bullyland, Nayab, CollectA, Dollhouse Miniatures, handmade, Safari Ltd, Elastolin, unknown)

Some wonderful things here! What are the brands of this fabulous night-heron, the Southern bald ibis!!! (I was totally unaware of this species being made into figurine) and the hooded crane?

bmathison1972

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This thread is about the order of these medium-sized and large waterbirds that have feet with all four toes webbed.

Medium-sized and large waterbirds that have feet with all four toes webbed = Pelecaniformes sensu classico (or sensu logic), or what I would call the true Pelecaniformes. So, families Phaetontidae, Pelecanidae, Sulidae, Phalacrocoracidae, Anhingidae and Fregatidae. They also share a gular sac and other features typical of this order.

-  Ardeidae (herons)
 -  Threskiornithidae (ibises and spoonbills)
 -  Scopidae (Hamerkop)
 -  Pelecanidae (pelicans)
 -  Balaenicipitidae (Shoebill)

These are the Pelecaniformes sensu molecular "taxonomy", blindly accepted by every official source now, but not by me certainly! None of them have webbed feet except the Pelecanidae ;) with the remaining families falling in order Ciconiiformes according to classic or logic taxonomy done and accepted by exhaustive science before the invention of the molecular religion :)

While I am a classic morphologist, I can appreciate molecular taxonomy. Neither morphology nor molecular should be 'blindly' supported alone. And I am a firm believer that a 'genotype' should have a corresponding 'phenotype'. In this case, webbed feet are clearly not a monophyletic trait, as they are seen in the ducks and geese as well. The gular sac is more supportive then webbed feet.

Isidro

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While I am a classic morphologist, I can appreciate molecular taxonomy. Neither morphology nor molecular should be 'blindly' supported alone.

Same for me. I consider molecular phylogeny as one more of the useful traits that help to define a taxon - together with morphology, biochemistry, biogeography or even ethology, phenology, etc. If I talked about blind acceptance is because the modern taxonomy (not just for birds, but for everything) consist in accept exclusively molecular one (that can be done by any person with informatic knowledge with a program for making cladograms with gene sequences, so no need of scientific knowledge for that) with total exclusion of any other traits :P

In this case, webbed feet are clearly not a monophyletic trait, as they are seen in the ducks and geese as well. The gular sac is more supportive then webbed feet.

Read again my friend :) We're not talking about just webbed feet. We're talkin about all four toes webbed. This is a trait shared by all the Pelecaniformes sensu classico (so, including "Phaetontiformes" and "Suliformes") and not with any other bird with webbed feet, all of which have only three toes webbed, with the posterior toe not webbed.
And of course, the "modern taxonomy" Pelecaniformes (so: pelicans plus all the "classic taxonomy" Ciconiiiformes except the Ciconiidae) don't have even webbed feet, except for the pelicans.

In the images of this thread I see also a lot of birds that never has been considered Pelecaniformes under none taxonomic viewpont, such as ducks, cranes and even a kookaburra...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 07:48:55 PM by Isidro »

bmathison1972

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Oh sorry missed the 'four' part LOL

with regards to other birds that are not Pelicaniformes, some people just cross-post group images of their birds, and the image may contain Pelicaniformes and non-Pelicaniformes (I know widukind often does group shots that are not necessarily phylogenically related).  Those might be older images for some other group purpose (such as a SUY on STS). While it would be nice if people actually took the time to select the figures for the specific taxa, sometimes it's easier to just reuse older images that may contain other taxa.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 08:22:24 PM by bmathison1972 »

widukind

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Cranes, Heron, Ibisses..... (K&M, Starlux, Bandai, Kaiyodo, Bullyland, Nayab, CollectA, Dollhouse Miniatures, handmade, Safari Ltd, Elastolin, unknown)

Some wonderful things here! What are the brands of this fabulous night-heron, the Southern bald ibis!!! (I was totally unaware of this species being made into figurine) and the hooded crane?

Hooded crane and night heron are made by Kaiyodo. The ibis is a homemade figure (i got it from a STS member long long time ago)

Isidro

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Ahhhh, that explain why is not in the Toy Animal Wiki! :D
Thanks for the reply! I love this homemade Southern Bald Ibis :)

Beetle guy

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Which company made the spoonbill in the back (left)?
To beetle or not to beetle.

bmathison1972

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Which company made the spoonbill in the back (left)?

the larger one with its head down and brown between its legs? That's the older version of the CollectA black-faced spoonbill; I illustrated the more recent one above.


Beetle guy

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Thanks!
To beetle or not to beetle.